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Metru Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame

Joined: 14 Aug 2003 Posts: 658 Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
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Posted: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:56:26 UTC Post subject: |
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It is known (from Euler) that:
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 _________________ Respectfully, Metru. |
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jinydu Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame
Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 2988
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Posted: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:09:04 UTC Post subject: |
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Doesn't anyone have anything to say about Zeta(3)? Its such a tantalizing problem, simple enough for a middle school student to understand.
1 + (1/8) + (1/27) + (1/64) + (1/125) + (1/216) + (1/343) + (1/512) + (1/1000) + ...
I realize this is an unsolved problem, but has anyone thought about it, just for the sake of fun? |
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CHAVS Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame

Joined: 15 Oct 2003 Posts: 1446 Location: The Sombrero Galaxy
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Posted: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:13:46 UTC Post subject: |
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| zeta(3) is irrational (proved by Aperey). |
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jinydu Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame
Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 2988
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Posted: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 05:48:05 UTC Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: | 2heardie: Euler's proof is not rigor enough to make it a real mathemtical proof.
In his proof he says:
just because they have the same roots. The way of the proof is correct but not justified enough by him. |
After reading those articles earlier in this thread, it seems you are right after all.
Its not hard to show that any polynomial of finite order is completely specified by its y-intercept and all of its roots (provided we know the multiplicity of all the roots and the polynomial does not pass through the origin).
However, the same is not true for "infinite polynomials" (such as those encountered in Taylor Series). One of the links (http://www.southernct.edu/~sandifer/Ed/History/Preprints/Talks/NYU%20Basel%20Problem%20Paper.PDF) shows that the function:
(e^x)*f(x) has the same roots and y-intercept as f(x), where
f(x) = 1 - (x^2)/3! + (x^4)/5! - (x^6)/7! + ...
However, (e^x)*f(x) clearly does not equal f(x).
So there is a major hole in the proof. The article also states that Euler later devised another proof using elementary calculus, Taylor series and integration by parts, but even that proof does not meet modern standards of rigor.
Strangely enough, that article contradicts something I read elsewhere. I once read a book on the greatest mathematical theorems in history. That book only mentioned the infinite polynomial method (although I think it did make references to other proofs) and stated that Euler had no idea of the correct answer before he devised his proof. On the other hand, jazzmaster's link states that Euler used a numerical method to estimate the value of zeta(2); he recognized the value as being approximately (pi^2)/6, so he subsequently restricted his search to trigonometric functions. I wonder which account is correct. |
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shmoe Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 924
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Posted: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 06:22:08 UTC Post subject: |
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| jinydu wrote: |
After reading those articles earlier in this thread, it seems you are right after all.
Its not hard to show that any polynomial of finite order is completely specified by its y-intercept and all of its roots (provided we know the multiplicity of all the roots and the polynomial does not pass through the origin).
However, the same is not true for "infinite polynomials" (such as those encountered in Taylor Series).
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Hadamard's work of entire functions of finite order (which sin(z) is) shows that such a function can be factored as an infinte product over it's zeros. It's not completely determined by the zeros though, you'll have to multiply the product by another (relatively simple) entire function with no zeros to make things match. This is similar to how a finite polynomial is determined by it's zeros up to multiplication by a constant and is why the two functions in your example are unequal.
The product form Euler suggests for sin(x) can be proven quite rigorously. |
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jinydu Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame
Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 2988
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Posted: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 07:35:36 UTC Post subject: |
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Now, I guess I'll try to (finally) post my thoughts on Zeta(3), and hopefully not lose it all to an invalid session.
As I hinted at in an earlier post, my idea was to use Euler's method in reverse.
I start out with a function written as an infinite product:
f(x) = (1-(x^3)/(pi^3))*(1-(x^3)/(8pi^3))*(1-(x^3)/(27pi^3))*...
Unfortunately, my textbook only tells me how to prove that an infinite sum converges, I don't know how to prove the convergence of an infinite product. But I will assume that this infinite product converges, otherwise this whole method collapses.
Working backwards, I try to factorize the infinite product into linear terms. This is a bit too complicated to type into a text box, but suffice to say that each factor splits up into three factors, each one involving the three (complex) cube roots of unity. Of course, I'm now assuming that the infinite product will converge for complex values of x.
Working backwards again, I now have to find the function that satisfies the infinite product. I can state the conditions more precisely:
f(0) = 1
f(n*pi) = 0
f(n*(-0.5+(i*sqrt(3)/2))*pi) = 0
f(n*(-0.5-(i*sqrt(3)/2))*pi) = 0
where n is a natural number greater than or equal to 1.
Once I have found this function, I have to prove that it is equal to its Taylor Series.
Finally, I calculate the third derivative at 0, multiply by pi^3, divide by 6, and I would have the exact value of zeta (3)! |
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Theo Moore Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame
Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 649 Location: T.S.G. Moore
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Posted: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:31:29 UTC Post subject: Re: Problem of the Week - "Basel Problem" - 19/11/ |
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| jazzmaster wrote: | Hello everyone!
Here is the coolest problem for the week:
Historical background
For several decades there was much speculation about the value of the sum of the infinite series
This problem was known as the Basel problem. It seemed clear that the real sum was a number in the vicinity of 8/5. The problem had received much attention from Pietro Mengoli (1625-1686) and Jakob Bernoulli (1654-1706), brother of Johann and uncle of Daniel. Euler was able to solve this problem in 1735, when he caused a major sensation by showing that the sum had the unexpected value
Let's prove it!!
Prove that:
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This was on my Complex Analysis exam.
A series of the form,
where p is a positive integer can be solved using the Residue Theorem.
Where and
Here, the residue is equal to (use long division to express the fraction involving the expansion of cosine and sine), hence,  _________________ NO! NO! NO! Of course your answer is wrong [...] For god's sake man [...] Start thinking, for gruds sake! [...] grossly careless arithmetic mistakes [...] your integrals are WRONG, but even if they were right, you have not evaluated them correctly [...] start thinking! What a monumental waste of time this whole thread has turned out to be. - Mr. Fantastic
Hell, Mr. F, don't sugar-coat it ... tell us how you really feel. - Skeeter |
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jinydu Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame
Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 2988
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Posted: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 07:28:12 UTC Post subject: |
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| jinydu wrote: | Now, I guess I'll try to (finally) post my thoughts on Zeta(3), and hopefully not lose it all to an invalid session.
As I hinted at in an earlier post, my idea was to use Euler's method in reverse.
I start out with a function written as an infinite product:
f(x) = (1-(x^3)/(pi^3))*(1-(x^3)/(8pi^3))*(1-(x^3)/(27pi^3))*...
Unfortunately, my textbook only tells me how to prove that an infinite sum converges, I don't know how to prove the convergence of an infinite product. But I will assume that this infinite product converges, otherwise this whole method collapses.
Working backwards, I try to factorize the infinite product into linear terms. This is a bit too complicated to type into a text box, but suffice to say that each factor splits up into three factors, each one involving the three (complex) cube roots of unity. Of course, I'm now assuming that the infinite product will converge for complex values of x.
Working backwards again, I now have to find the function that satisfies the infinite product. I can state the conditions more precisely:
f(0) = 1
f(n*pi) = 0
f(n*(-0.5+(i*sqrt(3)/2))*pi) = 0
f(n*(-0.5-(i*sqrt(3)/2))*pi) = 0
where n is a natural number greater than or equal to 1.
Once I have found this function, I have to prove that it is equal to its Taylor Series.
Finally, I calculate the third derivative at 0, multiply by pi^3, divide by 6, and I would have the exact value of zeta (3)! |
At last, I've made some progress! I haven't found the function (obviously), but I've ruled out a whole family of functions that seem like they could have done the job.
I noticed that the key function for zeta(2) was (sin x)/x. Since sine is closely related to complex exponentials, it seems reasonable to search for another function involving complex exponentials.
I've managed to rule out:
f(x) = k*(e^(ax) + e^(bx) + e^(cx))
where k, a, b and c are arbitrary complex constants
I do have an exam tomorrow, so I don't have time to post the proof now. But I'll try to do so once I get back from the exam. |
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jinydu Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame
Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Posts: 2988
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Posted: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:10:49 UTC Post subject: |
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I may have celebrated too soon. I took another look at the proof, and there's actually a much simpler way to do it. Here's the simpler way.
Suppose r is a root of f(x). Then, by definition of a root:
k*(e^(ar) + e^(br) + e^(cr)) = 0
Now, in order for this function to work, nr (where n is any positive integer) must also be a solution. Therefore:
k*(e^(anr) + e^(bnr) + e^(cnr)) = 0
Since n is a natural number, the property:
e^(yn) = (e^y)^n must hold
k*((e^(ar))^n + (e^(br))^n + (e^(cr))^n) = 0
Obviously, k cannot be zero (otherwise, the function would just be f(x) = 0, which can't be right). Thus, the expression in the parenthesis must be 0 for all positive integer n.
Now, let A = e^(ar), B = e^(br), C = e^(cr)
The equation becomes
A^n + B^n + C^n = 0
For the first three values of n, this generates the equations:
A + B + C = 0
A^2 + B^2 + C^2 = 0
A^3 + B^3 + C^3 = 0
In the first equation, I solved for C. Then, I plugged that into the second equation and used the quadratic formula to solve for B (of course, I got two possible values of B). Finally, I plugged both values into the third equation. To my surprise, just about everything cancelled or simplified out, and I got A = B = C = 0.
But that is impossible, since e^(ar), for instance, can't possibly be 0. Thus, since the equations don't work for n = 1, 2 and 3, they can't possibly work for all positive integer n. Thus, the original assumption that f(x) had the form k*(e^(ar) + e^(br) + e^(cr)) must be false.
I've been able to generalize a bit and also rule out:
k*(+-e^(ar) +- e^(br) +- e^(cr))
k*(+-e^(ar) +- e^(br) +- e-^(cr))/(x^n), n a positive integer
This also brings up the question, what are the possible solutions to:
A + B + C + D = 0
A^2 + B^2 + C^2 + D^2 = 0
A^3 + B^3 + C^3 + D^3 = 0
A^4 + B^4 + C^4 + D^4 = 0
Can I generalize further to n variables and n such equations?
Also, I haven't tried:
f(x) = a*e^(tx) + b*e^(ux) + c*e^(vx)
But that equation has 6 arbitrary constants, so it would probably be harder to deal with. |
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coolguy Member
Joined: 09 May 2004 Posts: 16
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jazzmaster Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame

Joined: 28 Mar 2004 Posts: 370 Location: Kfar-Saba::Israel
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Posted: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:25:15 UTC Post subject: |
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| Very nice, coolguy! |
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PiDeltaPhi Member of the 'S.O.S. Math' Hall of Fame

Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 1328 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:36:31 UTC Post subject: |
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Haha, I just wanted to post a link and I notice that someone has already posted it 6 months ago... _________________
"The paradise of the moment is greater than any invented eternity."-
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Shadow Moderator

Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 4954 Location: Urbana, IL
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Posted: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:41:02 UTC Post subject: |
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| PiDeltaPhi wrote: | | Haha, I just wanted to post a link and I notice that someone has already posted it 6 months ago... |
Having those memory lapses again PDP?  _________________ (\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)
This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination |
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